Mary Starr
Thu, Aug 24, 2023 1:51PM • 43:33 Transcribed by Otter.AI
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
employees, culture, survey, starr, work, team, group, building, zen, initiative, jess, share, pandemic, support, mary, organization, talking, engagement, important, today, mental health
SPEAKERS
Jessica Ollenburg, Mary Starr
Jessica Ollenburg
Thanks so very much for joining us. I am your host, Jessica Ollenburg. And today we are talking with Mary Starr, Executive Vice President of The Starr Group. A few of our topics include culture by design not default, the culture of mattering, surveys done right, healthy partnerships, laughable moments, and of course, Zen.
Jessica Ollenburg
We're talking personal Zen through exercise fresh air and living in the present. We're talking creating Zen for those we lead to help humans bring their A games in productivity, wellbeing, and work life balance. Here's a little background on today's guest. Mary Starr Executive Vice President has directed The Starr Group since 1985. She graduated from the University of Wisconsin Madison with a degree in sociology and social work and a minor in Spanish. She went on to earn graduate credits toward her master's degree in Social Work at the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee and graduate credits toward her master's in business administration at Kellogg Graduate School. In 2010. Mary became a certified wellness coach and in 2016, earned her certified corporate wellness specialist designation. She has served on numerous boards past and present, including American Heart Association Board of Directors, wellness Council of Wisconsin's executive board of directors, board of directors for the Wheaton Franciscan health care ascension Foundation, Wheaton Franciscan health care Diabetes Awareness Advisory Board, well city milwaukee Advisory Board of Directors Marsh Berry and Associates Advisory Council, the South Suburban Chamber of Commerce, board of directors and more. Mary has been at the helm of creating The Starr Group's current award winning wellness program Fit for Life, which has received numerous accolades including national healthiest 100 workplaces, inducted into the Hall of Fame 2022, Well Workplace award, Wellness Council of America since 2011, American Heart Association, Workplace Health Solutions, Gold Award, and many more. Welcome, Mary, it has been such a pleasure to collaborate with you and The Starr Group on so many topics. Beyond the pleasure of working with you, you've introduced us to some fabulous, some really fantastic employer clients, and it's created some wonderfully robust relationships. We're so appreciative of that. Thank you very much for those introductions and for all that support.
Mary Starr
You're welcome. You're welcome, and you know, Jess, I have to acknowledge you for putting this podcast series together, I have had the opportunity to listen to several of your podcasts. And I have to acknowledge you for how educational, inspirational and enjoyable, entertaining they have been. So I am really honored to be a part of this podcast series.
Jessica Ollenburg
Thank you so much for saying that. That is exactly what our purpose was in creating this podcast.
Mary Starr
Yes, I even listen to Gavin Quinnies, who is the head of US HealthCenter. And The Starr Group has worked with Gavin and US HealthCenter for the past 15 years. And he was a guest on your your series. So it was very fun to listen to Gavin... and your other guests.
Jessica Ollenburg
Yes, and Gavin always has a lot to say. And it's always good, interesting stuff -- very timely!.
Jessica Ollenburg
Absolutely. And every guest has brought really a unique topic and a unique flavor, a unique dynamic, and it's just been wonderful. This is... we're so happy to have you. This is our final show for season one. And it has been a really enjoyable, enjoyable ride and journey of entertaining and enlightening conversations with some really great people. And thank you for being one of them.
Mary Starr
I'm honored. I'm honored. So glad to hear.
Jessica Ollenburg
Tell us what's new with The Starr Group.
Mary Starr
Sure. Well, The Starr Group is an Insurance Risk Management Agency. And we have been in business since 1956. We are currently in our third generation of leaders so very excited for that. Yeah. And also very excited to share that back in November of 2020, the Starr Group actually became an Acrisure partner. And what that means is same location, same team, same great service. But now what we have is the backing of a multibillion dollar company... it provides access to more markets for our clients, more education, more expertise, more resources for our clients. So what allows us is to look forward with excitement to a future of connecting our clients to more solutions that can help them grow, along with protecting both their business and their personal assets. So we're very excited for what the future has to bring.
Jessica Ollenburg
That is very exciting. It is so important to offer those solutions, the risk management and the information pieces. And, to be able to bring more resources is so important today. So thank you for doing that.
Mary Starr
changing times... those resources, and those needs definitely change.
Jessica Ollenburg
Oh, they're changing... times are changing.
Mary Starr
Absolutely.
Jessica Ollenburg
As a leader, Mary, you've shined above in your commitment to culture by design, rather than culture by default. What propelled you toward culture by design? And how did you build a culture in an existing successful company with existing practices, teams and leaders?
Mary Starr
Well, I love talking about the topic of building a culture by design, because that was born within our organization, back in 2008. And if you recall, at that time, the country was going through a recession. And, The Starr Group was also going through some significant changes. And it was at that time that I heard the words of the CEO of the Wellness Council of America, David Honeycutt. He was the CEO at that time, and he shared that every organization has a culture, but only a precious few have been built strategically, consciously, and by design. And I remember how that resonated with me, probably because we were going through significant change at The Starr Group. And it just made sense. So I was committed to building a culture by design. And I used all of the changes at The Starr Group, as an opportunity to begin rebuilding our organization by focusing on building a culture by design. And over the course of the past 15 years, since I've, since this has really become my passion, I have come up with I believe what I believe, to be 15 critical ingredients for building this culture by design. And this is a work in progress, you don't just jump in and build a strong culture. We did it strategically. We did it meticulously step by step. So this really does take time. But we were committed to building this culture. And we were committed to making improvements each and every year. And I will share just a couple of those initial ingredients for building a strong culture. Number one is for the leadership team to commit to the value of a strong culture. Because if the leadership team is not on board, they are not going to dedicate resources. And this initiative will never get off the ground. So very, very important for the leadership team of your organization to be on board. And then number two, I recommend starting by taking an assessment of your current culture, there are many culture surveys out there, we use the one that is provided by the Wellness Council of Wisconsin. And when we did that first survey, it was very apparent to us that there were enhancements that we needed to make to our culture. So a survey will tell you what you're doing right and where those opportunities for improvement or growth are. And this as I said, this initiative is not a one and done. We actually administer that survey every single year. And over the course of the past 15 years. We have an award -- we've built an award winning culture. We have received regional awards in Wisconsin, and also national awards for healthiest employer, best places to work, most ethical business, Future 50. So we've earned many of these accolades since focusing on building a culture by design. But even so, it's very important to continue to survey your team. So we do this survey each and every year to, to avoid that cultural complacency. And then the third ingredient is really what builds that strong foundation for our culture. And that is identifying your values, and using those to build your mission and your vision statement. And Tim, and I spent several weeks with a leadership coach, one of our partners, Joan Sparks, and she helped us do a deep dive into identifying what our core values were. And we use those to build our mission and our vision statement. And again, very important to us that these are living, breathing components of our culture. So they're listed on our website or intranet. We talk about them in all of our agency meetings, and every new employee is introduced to our core values. Over the course of their first seven weeks, we send out a thought-provoking email each day, and we focus on one culture per week. But our goal is to help them understand and hopefully connect with these core values. So again, very, very important to make them living and breathing, and the values, the mission and the vision statement, that is truly the foundation of building this strong culture. And as I had shared with you, this is never a one and done initiative, we continue to keep our finger on the pulse. And by doing so, we administered a new survey. It was a burnout survey in 2021. That was during the pandemic. And the results of that survey showed that the majority of our team was struggling, they had dealt with major life traumas, they were struggling with fear of failure, depression, financial stress, and they admitted to using unhealthy coping mechanisms. So that was very concerning, to find out that the majority of our team was struggling. And one thing that became very apparent is that in this hybrid environment that so many of us are working within that it's easier for employees to hide their true emotions. And it's easier for management to overlook what's truly going on with their team. So when I received the results, to find out that the majority of our team was struggling, I took the results, the aggregate results, to one of our collaborative employee committees. And we have three of them, we have a wellness committee, a fun committee and the best of the best committee. And those committees are made up employees who are working on behalf of their co workers to make The Starr Group a better place for all. And these are very important to building a culture as well, because it's giving your employees a voice, and they become your cultural ambassadors. But it was by bringing the results of this burnout survey to our best of the best committee, they suggested creating our own mental health support group. And I remember being very hesitant to move forward with that, because I'm not a mental health professional. The Starr Group certainly is not. But they were really pushing for this. And I thought, you know, we've always been willing to try new things in the past. And so I jumped in, moved forward, and I figured we could always pull back or pivot and change if we needed to. But what we did is we rolled out a group that we call "Being Heard," and this is a mental health support group for our entire team. And this group meets every month for an hour. And we are currently in our 15th month of hosting this group and the the goals of this group are together to work to destigmatize mental health and for our employees to feel comfortable being their authentic selves at work and to also let them know it's okay not to be okay, as long as you are working to get better. So again, we built this group, it's been meeting for 15 months, we have had upwards of 75% of our team attend these sessions. And in these sessions, we start by sharing an educational article, again as a means of education, also to provide resources, coping techniques. So we discuss that together. And then we have an employee, a volunteer, share their personal story. And, Jess, I have been amazed at not just how, how willing people are to volunteer, but how much they want to share their story. And research shows that by simply sharing your story that actually supports your own mental well being. And so this has been a very successful group. And I will also share that in our most recent employee survey, our team voted, this Being Heard mental health support group as the number one resource at The Starr Group. And that says a lot, because number one, I was hesitant to move forward with it. And number two, we have a lot of initiatives at The Starr Group. So for this to be the number one most valued resource really said a lot. And it was wonderful to receive that feedback. So again, that's part of always keeping your finger on the pulse and listening to what employees need. Another example this past year, just a few months ago, we rolled out what is called a Culture of Mattering statement. And that is a statement where we as a team, so it's not just management, but our entire team, we want them to be committed to helping their teammates feel noticed, affirmed and needed. And to let them know, let everyone know that what they do at The Starr Group matters, and that they are making a difference to their teammates, to our clients and to The Starr Group as a whole. So again, kind of a long answer. But I'm very passionate about building a culture by design, and very excited about the positive results we have had, since we've had this focus... way beyond what I ever imagined. So thank you for asking.
Jessica Ollenburg
Absolutely. Wonderful news. Thank you very much for sharing this. We've seen so many similar results, but only when others follow the exact advice that you are delivering. If we don't have absolute top down commitment, and execution and alignment, then we it falls off. We have confusion. We have disharmony, we have people who are feeling that it's not right for them, it can backfire, et cetera. You have taken the absolute, you tell us it's a long answer, but it needs to be
Mary Starr
a 15 year answer.
Jessica Ollenburg
It's a 15 year answer. It's a 15 year answer. And sometimes that's what it takes. I would say that we spent that long trying to figure out remote work thankfully before the pandemic happened, but But it helps you adjust when that when the time is needed.
Mary Starr
You are so right!
Jessica Ollenburg
The uniqueness of humans creates a situation where cookie cutter practices do not work. So as you address the assessments, and I hear you saying that you used an assessment from the Wellness Council, which is very timely, very timely, we look at the impact upon human beings also very recently, through through the pandemic, et cetera. And anytime going through a recession or any of the extrinsic... extrinsic variables that can so affect our mindset, our wellness and our motivation. We need to turn and look to that we need to address that and help our employees through that so that they can bring their A games. Thank you for doing that. Thank you for putting so much into it. And thank you for sharing the results that engagement is fantastic. When I hear you talking about onboarding and leadership, that's an important component once you have this set up. Now you want to bring in people who match those values, who match what you're doing on a cultural standpoint, so that their culture aligns. One of the surveys we used before the wellness council is also still used today is an Ethical Culture Survey. Which gets to core values in another way, but if you can look at your individual group of demographics, and you can look at the needs of your employee base, your team, and address that, that's where we have real success.
Mary Starr
Absolutely. And to keep our finger on the pulse of what those needs are, and what those changing needs are, again, one of those those ingredients of building a strong culture is to survey your team. And we do this continually. In fact, we administer eight surveys a year, I'm very sensitive to overserving our group. So I spread them out. Most of them are brief surveys. But this provides valuable input to what's working and where those opportunities for growth are. And they're only valuable if if your employees are comfortable giving their honest feedback. And that's what we want. We want their honest feedback, we don't want them to tell us what we want to hear. We want their honest feedback. So to support that, we impress and communicate that all surveys are confidential, and that what we receive in in return are aggregate results only. So we can never point our finger to who said what, unless they attach their name to it. And then secondly, if you're going to take the time to survey your group, you need to respond to every single survey. So we share the results, the aggregate results with every of every single survey with our team. And we let them know how we're going to respond. And even if they make a suggestion, and we're not going to move forward with that, we let them know that and we let them know why. So again, if you want this honest feedback, so important to let them know that those surveys are confidential and so important that you respond to every single survey. And we always take the results to our collaborative committees, again, the Wellness Committee, the best of the best committee and get their input. Again, they're your cultural ambassadors, and the feedback that they come forward with. Honestly, Jess, they have come up with some of the best ideas, the best enhancements, and as leaders, we need to be vulnerable, and we need to trust their input. Because again, that's where some of the best ideas have come forward.
Jessica Ollenburg
And as leaders, we need to be seen learning, absolutely need to be seen learning, we need to be seen as agreeable to change, nimble, open minded, otherwise, we're setting a precedent that's not going to help our team.
Jessica Ollenburg
And thank you very much for the comments on the privacy. Safeguarding privacy is so important. And as you know, with so much we do on the legal risk management and policy side, it is very important that we're looking at HIPAA privacy and ADA privacy all forms of EEOC privacy, and to have that set up and to have medical privacy officers know what the boundaries are, and what to address, what not to address and with whom is so important. And I know that you pay great attention to that.
Mary Starr
Absolutely.
Mary Starr
Absolutely. Absolutely very important to them. And again, that's what supports that honest feedback. And also that engagement because they know that this is a culture that they can trust. And we built this culture on trust. So very important.
Jessica Ollenburg
So very important. So very important. We have seen surveys constructed in a manner where questions were asked that would not then be addressed later. And that's something where we kind of come in and damage control. Don't ask a question unless you're going to respond to it. You're just shining a light on a problem that you're now not addressing. So the crafting of surveys has to be very unique. Cannot be cookie cutter... must omit any questions you're not willing to make changes on or speak to, or you're setting it up for backfire.
Mary Starr
Yes, and we're pretty open. We've been put in some uncomfortable situations, but we have addressed them head on. And again, it's it's about transparent and open communication and addressing the good with the bad.
Jessica Ollenburg
Yes
Mary Starr
We're willing to talk about our weaknesses. And as leaders, we, we are growing and learning along with our team. And it's okay to admit that, and it's okay to admit not having all of the answers, as long as we're continually striving to learn, grow. And one of our goal or our core values is excellence. So we're always striving towards excellence.
Jessica Ollenburg
And just to circle back on that point, being willing to not have immediate answers is such an important aspect of leadership. Too often we see employees bluffing or guessing, because they think, they've been taught, they've been conditioned, or at least not unconditioned, to realize they can go validate, they can go confirm the accuracy before they communicate an untruth. So when we're able to do that, when we're able to take a pause and say, I'd like to look into that further, etc. And we set the example for that research and that verification.
Mary Starr
Absolutely. And I think it's, what I've realized, is, again, the importance of communicating the good with the bad. But what I've realized is that what employees tend to come up with on their own can be much worse than reality. So again, to to be honest and transparent in your communication, because they will see through that. And as I said, again, I've learned, if you don't respond, what they're coming up with on their own, can be much worse than the worst case scenario that you are going to respond to.
Jessica Ollenburg
Absolutely. And thank you very much for this. I bring up and together we've brought up some of the caveats only because this is a shining example of doing it well. And we want to help people know where this could go wrong, if you're not really paying attention and closing all the gaps. You and The Starr Group have been a shining example of doing it well, and, and that's why we've taken a look at it in such a deeper dive. I also want to tell our listeners right now that Mary has put together a wonderful PowerPoint explanation of the culture by design, these committees and many of the things that we're talking about. This PowerPoint is available at the landing page at our website, thezenquestofleaders.com. And it is also available at the show notes wherever you are playing this podcast. So thank you for that.
Mary Starr
Thank you for sharing that, Jess. Fantastic!
Jessica Ollenburg
also want to talk about that exceptionally high participation rate and company surveys. Again, taking a note that we've got 75%, or more engaging really does show that we have that trust, and we're getting good info. A lot of companies struggle with that. So kudos.
Mary Starr
Thank you. Thank you, yes, engagement is what it's all about. And in building a strong culture, that's probably the most important goal is to have highly engaged employees. And today, that's not the case, I've seen upwards of 70% being disengaged. So our goal is to engage those employees, and to have them be promoters of our organization because that's what engaged employees become. They promote your organization outside of of the company walls, to their family, their friends, and also within your organization. They're talking to coworkers about how wonderful it is to be at The Starr Group. So having engaged employees is always a key goal of our organization. Also because engaged employees are more productive, they're more creative. And when that occurs, our - your organization will be more successful overall. So again, having highly engaged employees is a primary goal of building a strong culture.
Jessica Ollenburg
Absolutely. And thank you for doing it so well and being that shining example when so many are struggling.
Mary Starr
Thank you, Jess.
Jessica Ollenburg
Mary, we love laughable moments on this show. I understand Tim's initial reaction to this initiative was humorously polite, yet somewhat skeptical. Tell us about that.
Mary Starr
That's a great way of putting it, Jess. So yes, when I had heard the concept of building a culture by design, and I was so excited, so motivated to, to jump in and begin this process, and Tim, my husband, and my partner who is the CEO of The Starr Group, he was on board, but he was passively on board. And the word I kept hearing him say, was, that's nice. Those are nice things that you're doing, kind of like bringing in a treat for somebody's anniversary or their birthday. He definitely initially did not see this as a strategic initiative. He just thought it was a nice kind of soft initiative that we were doing. And then he started to see the comments from employees in the surveys, and began to realize the positive impact this was having on employee retention, employee productivity, and recruiting employees. Because as we got the word out, and it's we're all about getting it out on social media, and on our website. We're also on Facebook and on Twitter and on LinkedIn. And as he saw the comments, and the fact that people were coming and wanting to work at The Starr Group, because of the strength of our culture. Well, I'll tell you, he stood up. And today, he is our biggest cheerleader, and our biggest believer and supporter of why having a strong culture supports a successful organization overall. So it was funny how it started. But today, he has turned into our number one cheerleader.
Jessica Ollenburg
And I can hear that from Tim, that's nice. Like I can hear him being just very polite, very guarded, very supportive. But until you see those hard business results...
Mary Starr
absolutely.
Jessica Ollenburg
There's going to be some skepticism and that, but certainly, certainly it's been excellent branding, excellent branding. And it's so important for, as you said, the retention, the recruitment, the engagement, the culture, creating a relaxed mind, when you create safe harbor when you show employees that they are cared about and that their needs are going to be met, whether you're looking at Maslow's hierarchy of motivation, or what have you, when they trust that their needs are going to be met, they become more relaxed, and that brings their A game. People like to bring their A game. They like to do their best. Many people want to succeed, and want to be in a place where their employers also want them to succeed. And you can't take that for granted.
Mary Starr
Now, very, very important. And again, it's that creating that culture where they know what they do matters each and every day. They spend a lot of time at work, and so very, very important for them to feel they're making a difference and that their efforts matter.
Jessica Ollenburg
So important. Here is the question for all of our Zenquesting leaders out there. We've learned that to optimize our capacity, we need to actively refuel our tanks as humans before our tanks run dry. What do you actively do to refuel and calibrate when needed? Mary, let's take this question in two parts. First is I'd like to know .... our listeners would like to know... Mary how do YOU zen? And then secondly, what practices have you established for your team leaders and your team members to Zen and bring their A games and work life balance?
Mary Starr
Great question, Jess. I love this because it's very important to me to support my own ability to then very important for me every single day to have exercise and fresh air. And as a busy executive and as an individual, I joke and when I call myself a compulsive completer. And I'm only half joking because if I get on a project, I can stay on that project until I finish and maybe it's into the evening. So what I've learned is that I schedule my workouts and I schedule them just like any other important meeting because they are just as important as any other meeting, because if my tank is not full, I am not going to be effective. So I schedule these workouts, people don't need to know that it's a meeting with my bike, and that I'm outside biking. But this is how I get that fresh air and those workouts in each and every day. And I would also say that, for me, it's very important for me to stay in the present. There's a lot that's happened in the past. And there's a lot of uncertainty and discomfort with the future. And so I work very, very hard to stay in the present, it doesn't mean becoming irresponsible, and not planning for the future. But what I realized is, if you are someone who's fretting about about the hypothetical that could happen in the future, you're going through that stress now, and then should it happen in the future, you're going through it again. So it's very important to me, and I work very hard to stay in the present. So those are a couple examples of how I Zen. And second part of the question was, how do we support our employees doing the same? Well, again, that's extremely important to us. And I guess there are a lot of ways that we support our employees' ability to reach that Zen state. First of all, it's supporting our diversity, equity and inclusion statement and initiatives and for employees to know and realize, and be comfortable bringing their authentic selves to work, that's where they're most productive. That's where they're most creative. And that's where that greatest engagement in job satisfaction will be. It's also about some of the initiatives that we've rolled out since the pandemic. Last year, we began what we call flex star, which is unlimited PTO, we also have something as simple as bring your dog to work, and also dress for your day. These have all been very important initiatives that supports the overall comfort and Zen of our team. And we're able to offer things like unlimited PTO, because we built this culture of trust. And we know that our teammates are professionals, and that they're not going to abuse these initiatives of unlimited PTO, and that bringing their dog to work. Maybe it was a an emotional support dog for that employee. But I will tell you, they become emotional support dogs for the office as a whole. And we generally have one or two dogs in our office each and every day. And then something is simple, simple, as dressing for your day. We used to have casual Fridays, and that was a big deal, but since the pandemic, it now it's dress for your day. You're an adult, you're a professional, you know if you need to dress differently on a certain day because of an important appointment that you may have. And then also, we host regular engagement in charity events to support the zen of our team. engagement events, we used to do quarterly events, like maybe it was snow tubing at The Rock or going bowling or a happy hour. What we've done since the pandemic is we've increased those engagement opportunities. We have Blum coffee garden, which is across the street from the Starr Group. So twice a month, we host coffee time at Blum. And that's voluntary. Anybody can show up at 730. And it's generally for an hour 730 to 830. So our group picks up the cost of the coffee, but that allows employees to get together and engage outside of that work environment, and to talk about what's going on in their personal lives. And then also, we schedule regular charity events. Our number one charity is the American Heart Association. And we support the Heart Walk every year and other several other events hosted by the American Heart Association, but we support a lot of charities. The Hunger Task Force farm is very close to our office. So we have volunteer events in tandem with the Hunger Task Force. And what I realized is today employees want to work for organizations that give back and when they are allowed the opportunity, especially during work time to give back that that in and of itself supports their own mental well being. So I like to believe even think that we do a lot to support our our team getting to that, that position or point of them. So very important to us.
Jessica Ollenburg
Well, thank you for that and listening to all of those ways that you're supporting Zen is so consistent with the culture by design that we've talked about and addressing the specific values of your team.
Mary Starr
Absolutely, absolutely. It's become. You know, it's funny how I was intrigued by this 15 years ago, but how it's really become a passion. And I love talking about it. And I love helping other organizations get to this point. That's why I'm happy to share the PowerPoint, happy to share the struggles that we've had, and also the wins that we've had. And that's where those 15 ingredients of building a strong culture, that's where those are tried and true ingredients. And those are the things that helped the star group, build this culture by design, which has become both a local and national award winning culture that retains employees, recruits employees, and helps our organization to be more successful overall.
Jessica Ollenburg
Congratulations, Mary, on all the hard earned and well deserved awards for The Starr Group. And thank you for all you do. It is just so refreshing to hear how you take care of employees and your energy about it is is quite frankly, infectious.
Mary Starr
Oh, I'm so glad to hear. Thank you, Jess, that's very kind of you!
Jessica Ollenburg
Yes, that's it's absolutely infectious. I can see how you could bring out the passion in others by simply sharing yours
Mary Starr
That's my goal
Jessica Ollenburg
and a wonderful, a wonderful characteristic to be able to have.
Mary Starr
Thank you. I appreciate those kind words Jess,
Jessica Ollenburg
well deserved. Lastly, Mary, how can our listeners learn more about The Starr Group and how can they reach you?
Mary Starr
Absolutely. Our website, www.StarrGroup.com. We're on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter. Also, my email, my direct email is in that PowerPoint, MStarr at StarrGroup.com. Please feel free to reach out to me email is the best way. Again, I'm very passionate about this. And I'm very willing to answer any additional questions people may have, offer my advice on what worked for us and what didn't. But I am happy to be a resource for anyone who is looking to build a culture by design.
Jessica Ollenburg
Well, thank you so much. I know our listeners really appreciate all all the good information you bought today. And thank you for sharing the wins. And certainly you mentioned the struggles but there are no wins without the struggles. So. So thank you for that. And thanks for being with us today. And I look forward to continue to work with with you. Appreciate your time.
Mary Starr
My pleasure, Jess, and I continue. I look forward to continuing to partner with you as well. So thank you very much. It's been my honor to be a part of this podcast.